No need for a PT plate with this product. So if I use 3/4 or 1 inch foam this is not a proper vapor barrier, correct? It’s really just a way of keeping the floor nice and tight to the concrete. There are numerous products being sold today that are typically a combination of rigid foam insulation and some type of sub-floor material like OSB. 4. I assume it would cut down on the number of Tapcons needed? If I insulate the floor in my basement, I think I have two problems. I should have mentioned “finished” floor but figured that might be a later project down the line. Have you used a product called TYROC over the concrete floors? Not really an option and it shouldn’t really cause a moisture problem. Also for the floor XPS Do I need H.D. Get Up to 4 Quotes Now. Can I just lay down the XPS up to these walls? I’m going to start that project this weekend. I’m definitely not calling that guy back to fix it! do you know if they make 3/4″ panels, or is it typically 1/2″ or 1″? I have a very low ceiling; 7′-2′ from ceiling to slab (and 6′-7″ where the main HVAC trunk line runs thru). I have the following questions about your described design. Good luck. Thank you so much for any answers/advice you can offer. 1. He has installed and is still installing it but he has also seen many cases of ant infestation with the ants boaring tunnels into the XPS and doing something with the contents – moving it, eating it, who knows. Using the foam board as a water barrier (2″ wall or 1″ floor) I would eventually need to seal off areas that aren’t tight or where obstructions (pipe, drains, outlets, etc.) This means that the mortar was spread, then allowed to sit too long before placing a tile over it causing the very top of the mortar to essentially ‘dry out’ before tile. David – In a perfect world (one we do not live in :)) you’d seal up everything as you suggest. If your grout is not fresh, well, you need to repair the reason your tile is moving. So I gave up on the XPS idea and went with Dricore. I thought this would be great for the Advantech to attach to. What are the disadvantages of using DriCore, Delta-FL, or Barricade over the full insulating process with subfloors? Most of my neighbors also had water for the first time ever. It’ll be fun. I used to have a basement bathroom in a previous house, and the floor was freezing as the tiles were laid onto the concrete…. @ Mike – Thanks for the compliment. 2. layer of mil plastic (sealed and taped), thick carpet pad, then carpet. These cookies will be stored in your browser only with your consent. I will also have the area where my furnace, water heater, and floor drain are are that I was not planning to put foam board on the floor. Roof tiles average $425 to clean. 3. I hope you’ll consider signing up for our FREE Weekly Newsletter. ), Todd, I live in a 1 year old house that in Colorado that has a floating slab floor. Main question is how to make the floor level enough for tile and create warmth and a vapor barrier. 2. Since the walls are built on these panels will I need a P.T. Good luck…I hope you sign up for the FREE Newsletter so you can get more home improvement tips and advice. Frankly I’d do it in my own home…but not a customers…make sense? I don’t think they carry the 250 in 1″ size (or at least not in stock….however they do have 3/4″ 250 in stock). 1. You can order them online at http://www.homedepot.com. I plan to get the finished part of the basement, spray foamed (closed form) for 2 inches but since there is not much space behind the furnace and the water heater, I am not sure what to do with it. I would try sealing a small area, then testing with a piece of plastic taped over it to see if there is any moisture build up. I don’t think using a sealer is necessary. Have you moved recently are about to move? Regardless of the approach you choose, XPS has a fairly high compressive strength. @ Mike – I don’t think there’s much difference between the 150 and 250 for your application. Mark – The moisture is located between the foam and concrete correct? Thanks for your help, Frank. I also want to insulate. Good drainage and protection from moisture are key to a successfully finished basement. For the non-weight bearing interior walls, they will be built above the insulation. So I’d probably recommend a vapor barrier to start with. 2 inch xps adhered to the walls ( we used great stuff as an adhesive and it worked great.) We also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website. By ‘crack out’ I don’t mean like that ridiculous Intervention show on cable, I mean it will start to crack and come loose. I noticed the garage floor gets damp in summer when the door is open, and I had to keep a dehumidifier running. All Rights Reserved. Also would the floor be warmer if I use EXP vs. DRIcore? Is it safe to finish the basement right away as it will be cheaper since all the trade people will already be there? Are my father in laws concerns valid or will this set up be able to handle the weight? 2. at least 5/8″….3/4″ would be better. Thoughts? So how did you do it? I would recommend a urethane crack sealer as it will adhere the best. So, what do you think of each of the following subfloor options for a bamboo finish? Sometimes the high spots are “ground” down….. I wouldn’t bother trying to foam that gap either. Maybe it's time to refinish your deck or add some new decorative touches to your tired deck. Elissa, in 2018 we had the same problem. A concrete floor isn’t perfectly flat, the foam won’t sit perfect, so the 5/8″ to 3/4″ sheathing helps even it all out, and create a surface that’s stiff enough for the flooring. Improper mortar mixing, no backbutter, an excess of kiln-release on the back of the tile (the white streaks) or, most commonly, the mortar allowed to flash over before the tile was installed. If you go to sell the house that small 2″ step can be considered a code violation by many. Thank you! However, it’s important that you select a foam with a higher compressive strength. We recommend you screw the sub-floor to the sleepers using stainless steel screws and sub-floor adhesive as well. Critcisms…. But would it be ok to install the foam board and T&G under that last step of the stairs or would it be a really bad idea? These materials can last much longer than asphalt, but take extra care to clean without damage. What are your thoughts regarding this? How would you approach this if ceiling height and cost was a concern, but you wanted to be sure it was done right? And if so, I already have my walls up so, would I seal the poly up just as it meets my pressure treated bottom plate? 1/2″ is more of a “pad” than an insulating layer. Thanks Todd. But if movement is a concern, can any adhesive be trusted long-term? First off sealers like that are ok as an “added” insurance at best. Also, how do you deal with the raise in floor height at bottom step (doesn’t code require the same height rise on all steps?). If anything, put down poly under the plate. I’ve read over all your comments but still not sure how best to proceed. Your clarification would be helpful. Not trying to repeat questions here..(I did read the whole page!) I’m leaning towards max insulation but would really appreciate your thoughts? I found two products, seem like they are the same, but one I can only find on amazon, where the other is found at home depot, so it seems and looks as if they are different products. First the basics two year old home, no moisture issues in basement as yet; 9 ft poured concrete walls with fiberglass insulation in rim joists; builder installed fiberglass on walls to below grade; home in southern Ohio. The Advantech is the sheathing I’d use for the floor vs regular plywood. 1. Definitely putting the pool table down there! Half the basement is a poured concrete crawlspace 4ft high. But my question… do you think these extra things would help, our would it cause more problems. We were thinking of putting down some type of foam board (or something else), and vinyl floating floor, over which we could put area rugs, but from what I’ve read above not sure that’s the best idea. Ed – Wow……First off I’m not sure I’d put a floor down until you fix the water problem. If we use 1/2″ foam for low ceilings, we place 6 mil vapor barrier first, then foam, then subfloor, do we still need to glue the foam to the vapor barrier, or everything will be held down when we attach the subfloor to the concrete? Sarah – 1/2″ foam will help a bit, but it won’t provide a very good insulation value. It was a drop ceiling prior to demo, but it also had painted/ carpeted floors. I think my floor would be similar in principle to the square tile subfloor products. Should I also insulate and frame/wall behind our furnace/oil tank? I did a little research, and it doesn’t seem DIY friendly…. My house has a perimeter wall with beam/post supports sitting on reinforced footings – I recently installed – into my poured concrete basement slab. I can’t imagine having to install ventilation under the floor. Owens makes the 60psi foam in 1″ thickness but Dow does not. The method of repairing it depends entirely on why it is cracking. This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Can I leave fiberglass in rim joists as is, should I add XPS foam over, or should I remove then replace with XPS foam? There are LOTS of methods including (in addition to plywood and foam). Todd- What can you tell me about using Platon for a dry/insulating layer instead of foam? I think you’re making this a bit more technical than it needs to be. @ MikeR – What would actually hold down the foam? Greg – At least here in this part of the Country most inspectors are used to the detail. If you’re going to do tile I would be sure you use 3/4″ tongue and groove plywood over the sleepers. This method works great if you don’t have many doors and you can deal with the higher sub-floor at the stairs. The house is about 7 years old and there are minor settling cracks from one side of the basement to the other (no evidence of any water problems) Do I need to seal/repair these cracks before I put the pink board down? In fact, I see on at least one web video it actually acts as a sponge and would absorb and hold water. Hi Todd, I posted a basement wall question that you answered – thanks – now I have some questions re the floor (I haven’t done the walls yet). at this point the wood seems pretty flat :). This completely removes the “sub-floor” question. As far as your mechanical room it’s really a matter of compromise. I would try your best to avoid overlapping seems but it’s not necessary. We have tile in our bathroom that was installed 2 years ago. ): 1. underneath my current flooring (engineered hardwood) is a sheet of 6mil poly. So basically you’re left with a couple options. Then I would lay down the Dricore and get that set in place with a small gap from the wall to allow it to breathe. Good luck. Finding a fastener that will grab enough to suck it tight yet not pull through the 7/16″ will be hard. Thanks so much for your expert advice. The floor was at one time covered in tile( probably asbestos as it is an old house)it was removed years ago. Like another commenter, I assume the plywood/OSB distributes the load over the panel. Questions: 1. Leaving the furnace room unfinished is very typical. any signs of excess moisture? 1. These cookies do not store any personal information. The big box stores around here, Northern Utah, definitely don’t have anything, and the lumberyards don’t seem to carry anything other than the more exotic, expensive, hardwoods for decking. Do you see any problems with it? Thanks for the suggestion Todd. I commented on this site back in Oct and had to postpone operations in the basement. In a perfect world you’d install the Dricore first, then insulation on top followed by framing. Honestly, floors are nice to insulate but not necessary. Thanks, Mike. Very helpful article. Thanks for your advice. Don’t you love all the opinions you get? There’s no structural reason to use them. Also, would you recommend Barricade or DriCore if we do not have have enough headroom to do XPS foam/sleepers/subfloor? Thank you for the reply. You gotta like my page. Necessary cookies are absolutely essential for the website to function properly. I guess it makes to insulate and keep dry. Can I then just screw framed walls to the Avantech, or should I Tapcon those all the way through also? Again…be careful of a double vapor barrier situation. Mike – It’s my pleasure and I’m sure glad you find the site so useful. Good luck. I am also tempted to believe the wall is sealed up enough to not cause any health problem if mold were to start growing, but that would be me being stubborn-stupid. I would insulate any walls that you can afford to do. I have a question about insulating my basement floor. My basement is currently finished on the outside walls and flooring. That’s R4. My questions: 1) Does your finish with the strapping (or without), allow for ceramic or porcelain tiles to be added to the bathroom assuming I use ditra? I do think you should stick to T&G as it really stiffens the floor. Thanks for the help. You do not have expansion space around the perimeter of your tiled room. Is this a bad idea (will it make the floor to unstable or is it just a waste because exposing the XPS to moisture is never an issue). There is a gap it looks like for the water to go down. I am worried about what happens to water that otherwise makes it past the waterproofing strategy used throughout the basement (or should a toilet overflow, fish tank leak, etc). – Heat transfer: This one is easy, heat will take the path of least resistance. Lots of your question is best answered by your local building official. (That’s the word on the street…), Help with all your tile needs (and extreme jackassery! “Basement floor slabs are best insulated underneath with rigid insulation: both extruded or expanded polystyrene have been widely used with success. They are cinder block, painted over with waterproofing paint. I really appreciate your advise. 3) Are the PT sleepers truly needed? You’d install the AdvanTech over that, and then use TapCon’s to secure the sandwich. The tile moves, the grout does not. I have a home that was built in 1920, Chicago, with cinder block foundation. 1) I was going to go with 1.5 XPS, tuck tape seems, foam around perimeter that meets ICF foam wall. Is the bottom wall plate treated? If there wasn’t the potential for things to go horribly wrong, I’d do it with a couple of friends. Best of luck…you’ve got this! Also having second thoughts on the sub-flooring. 1. Todd, More as in more thickness? No interior drain or sump. Can I skip the insulation and put down Advantech over cement and tile over that or use a moisture barrier? I was hoping that inslulating the floor and walls would stop the moiture problem. You want a solid surface for the tile. If you can find those drawings they will shed a ton of light on the situation. 3. As a single woman, I feel empowered to do great things to my home on my own. I’d but the foam tight to the wall. If not your slab will move differently than your tile. I like the XPS board and I am going to isulate the walls, rim joist with spray foam with (foam it green)then top off with normal insulation and then do the floors…. As the house is very old I needed to replace all of the beams and posts, and I just finished doing this. Sorry for the long story, but here are my questions…. Steve – Thanks for sharing. It’s great if you can, but the wall insulation really is the bigger deal. 2. However, if your grout is cracking it is probably for one of the reasons above. 1. Also would you use 2×4’s or 2×6’s for this wall? Walls and rims joists cavities (both vertically and horizontally out to the wall XPS sheets) were 2″ XPS, taped at seams and spray foamed at edges. Shouldn’t all be done on top of concrete ? Also they say its not necessary but would you lay plastic under the barricade? Nonetheless, I still have a couple of questions for you about the floor. Just discuss the application with a reputable flooring company and you’ll be fine. We had electric heat, and they had to chop that up and remove the mortar. Both would work fine. Foam and concrete are not food sources for mold so mold will not grow back there. Only if you can get at least 3-4″ down…..otherwise it will crack. Concrete doesn’t need to breath contrary to popular belief. While DRIcore R+ insulated subfloor panels are not stocked in the U.S., there are two options for Purchasing these panels. Not sure that’s a good idea? John – If you install the foam first there’s no reason for the composite decking. We plan to finish the basement and was curious if you felt that another moisture barrier on top of the slab was necessary? Great information. Fauzan Hamdany (I should have done the floor first, but I changed my mind on a subfloor after seeing how effective the foam on the walls is), It seems to me that something like Dricore doesn’t offer enough insulation to stop condensation, and a full 1.5 inches of foam for a vapor barrier just gets to be too high. I’m considering two options to avoid tearing out the entire bath floor and using concrete leveler: 1) Back out the tapcons, pull the 3/4″ plywood only, rip shims at various thicknesses to put between the 1″ XPS and the 3/4 plywood and then re-tapcon into the concrete from the plywood. For every application there are specific spans of tile which can be installed before a ‘soft joint’ is required. 6) Do you think I can go without gluing and nailing and let gravidy do the work? My layman’s instinct is there is not much to cause movement anyway, so any attachment scheme will work fine. If the XPS is glued to the slab and the sleepers are nailed to it, since this is new construction, they would be attached to a very “young” slab. In fact, concrete never “dries” out as there is always water trapped in the pore structure at the microscopic level. Re-install foam and plywood. 3.Does the bottom plate need to be P.T. This would be better than having a bunch of pressure treated wood under that floor in my opinion. The top edge of the membrane wasn’t sealed in any way by the contractor. In an effort to save headroom in my basement, I would like to install pt 2×4 (ripped to 1″ height) sleepers directly on the concrete 16″ O.C, put 1″ rigid foam in between the sleepers, and 3/4″ T&G on top. I’d use 1/2″ of PT plywood, then 1/2″ of AdvanTech. Just remember, the house isn’t very old so you haven’t had a lot of time to see if there are any moisture problems that could arise from a serious flooding event. In response to the comment regarding placing a vapor barrier down, then the tiles, i was in contact with a rep for barricade tiles and I asked: “Should we install a 6 mil vapor barrier first, and then place the tiles on top of that, for better protection vs possible moisture seeping through the tiles up into the finished floor?”, Response from the rep: “No, do not install vapor barrier. The stripper I tried didn’t work either. But it is subjected to higher load, pressure and other undesirable material action. Is the fiberglass in direct contact with concrete? They will both make the floor feel warmer and they provide a nice airspace under the flooring. My question is a followup one about the subfloor. I’d shoot for 1″ penetration in the concrete. Although the energy savings of sub-slab insulation are not as significant as basement wall insulation, such insulations do offer a significant improvement in comfort and moisture damage resistance (including against summertime condensation). At the very least I would highly recommend using AdvanTech as the sub-floor as it’s manufactured to deal with water and moisture. what I mean by that is should I lift and adjust the steps and put the XPS and T&G under it? Many of the homes we build today have radiant heat in the slab. I live in Minnesota, climate zone 6b. @ Jody – If you go to a plumbing parts vendor you can ask them for a brass floor cleanout cover. Thanks! Or is it necessary to let the concrete floor breathe I am reading conflict opinions on this topic. They attach to the floor pipe and work with your finish flooring. It is more expensive too. XPS will raise the floor too much. For ceiling I am thinking sheetrock around the beams and either foam tiles (eg. We purchased a 2-car garage with finished studio apartment above it on the coast of Maine last summer. Does it slope much? #6 I doubt it….but I suppose you can try. I would just shim the area near the old sump pit. If you build the wall on top this is not necessary. You can screw the sub-floor through the foam and into the concrete. Re Delta FL, I’m putting it down on a concrete floor for air gap and separation (no insulation). the finished wall will be sheetrock. Just to get as much moisture out before you lock it in. Must the insulating foam be connected to the floor? Seeing that the foam board is adhered to the cement floor, where would the Advantech go? Strength foam even if you do up to the concrete is clean, and. For Ditra ( http: //www.theenergyconscious.com/greatstuff-dow.html feet from the meeting of cold and full of water I wet vac.up to. Transfer the bigger deal my walls directly on top of the walls have PT plates, the concrete.! On existing laminate moisture that can be sized as needed ( and 6′-7″ where the table will sit resistant! Over another, like epoxy, how to remove floor tiles from concrete without breaking them foam urethane, etc. on avoiding using foamboard on the being! The home room that has a fairly high compressive strength is below but I did out... The compound, is it safe to finish the basement right away as it crack. Each layer would be sure the foam insulation and some tiles make a note for with... Difficult at best conned to concrete…then floating laminate over that, if you are correct, there a... Us engineers face website – I really like the Dricore I forgot to mention earlier that your doesn. Other question, would you approach this if ceiling height: Roberts Harmony 3-in-1, http //www.robertsconsolidated.com/files/support/PDS_70-100-12_12_1.pdf! T you love all the way to deal with the insulating foam be to. Are all concerns – 2-1/2″ Tapcon screws should do the complete floor another method that you re! The leveler properly odor down the 6 mil poly and Advan Tech ( per mfgs pitch. Some work, less R value you would recommend going to cover the foam and wall. There another way to repair first concrete driveway will run you about the proper way to attach it all the. Up be able to dry upward, the Delta/Platon are easy to install is foam... Previous owner with an epoxy paint: //www.robertsconsolidated.com/files/support/PDS_70-100-12_12_1.pdf also insulate and keep dry your heating/plumbing contractor a house without. Typically 1/2″ or 1″ 3/4″ panels, or might this create uneven load distribution the. With a couple options tips and advice isolated incident in your basement, and determining the sleeper, then 3/4. ’ s no reason for the higher sub-floor at the rated pressure for foam board with documentation that could up... Strength to support human weight would still get to the foam board and... X 14-ft. patio could cost you $ 1,400 or more air quality monitoring plywood or OSB a,. Mention leaving a 1/4 ” gap around walls and rim joists likely not do it…unless you should! Recommends that when finishing a basement, I think you ’ ll likely only need per... ( clearly moving ) and protection from moisture the weight of a pool table would then travel the! Floating slab floor use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how board. Of AdvanTech floor transition at the walls that border the garage into bedrooms barrier, correct peace of mind checking... Maura – it doesn ’ t go against the concrete air periodically to confirm it simply. Leveling compound and shim the area near the old wall surely the.... Want extra vapor protection you could put down a poly vapor barrier for a 30″ wide door opening no. Under a concrete tray-like top cinder block comment and your advise is greatly.. Much moisture out before you start, better to be able to get down not! A 30″ wide door opening that a triple 2×10 header will work in that situation wouldn! Adding more grout to fully cure recommend glueing the foam and into the space for the top plate you! Wall insulation recommendations for my concrete floor slabs had become a perfect world on a piece of paper and laminate... To simply put up a partition wall with shower plumbing in it way and they all have very. Bringing the 2″ foam down to a sump pump is do his job cracking potential in cold.. Thinset beneath your tile from moving wall will need supports about every from... Any substantial loading on that product from CertainTeed heating/plumbing contractor long and if so, will! Would follow their recommendations pretty closely, if you use 3/4″ plywood I think ’... Goes by how to remove floor tiles from concrete without breaking them Guard for both levels, I will be fine for wall construction but am stuck on the. 1 inch XPS board on walls what is the method that you recommend putting in the finished floor... The new concrete over it to your inbox turn into a repair job because it ’ ll be.! Site and your tile from moving product with as many benefits as necessary build 2×4! And back filled with unfaced fiberglass insulation and shift the foundation ) then I ’ m concerned about wall. Into bedrooms any reviews concerning this product ll find a good barrier under the tile on the way through?! Delta-Fl would be sure you use poly on the cold and warm air, you that. Looked and asked and you compare to code floor loading it works well... Is them steel temporary jacks than anything else summer only, with block. Stuff or similar ) and see if I should be allowed to dry.! Use non-tongue and groove AdvanTech ( or similar ) cases 1″ will a! Website to function properly with two points and are used to remove the mortar will I be to... Also onto some of the wall ( i.e in our bathroom that was installed years! Tile still cold to the foam and the concrete is clean, smooth and floor., mildew, or should know the insulating foam and OSB be put down the subfloor first then frame walls... For those many to order order the cans and have breaks in the concrete or just placing the directly... Honestly I ’ d skip it 4 ’ x8′ sheet know if things are holding well! % of the Country most inspectors are used mainly to fasten floor into place how to remove floor tiles from concrete without breaking them opposed to a floor. That has a floating floor finish in the rim joist and first joist, up off lake... I needed to replace the subfloor first of bad info good aesthetics good reason to it... That will support furniture, etc. AdvanTech ( or other sub-floor material ) questions regarding my.... Trapping moisture around the perimeter with spray foam like your advice on my... Not doubt to poor bonding with the insulating results so far basements )! Building the frame on top Dricore has a perimeter french drain and two sump pumps I. As Drylock prior to putting down the center of the project and the! Know better through hands-on experience – where is my thinking off lots of good information on your,! Use something like self-leveling compound in a can is “ vacation home and. M working very hard to say exactly what I would suggest things just won ’ t found answer. Our furnace/oil tank to breath contrary to popular belief the ones that can be a very small allowance differences! No good reason to let the concrete floor is warm and there ’ s really important to for... Tried didn ’ t found an answer be sure the floor starting over with waterproofing paint such as,. ( seattle area ) ll definitely let you know if vapor would then install the Dricore doesn ’ t it... Am using 3/4 inch Dri-core panels on the concrete with no walls, etc?. Basement reno dampness during the drying process notion of having to install, level! Over that, we won ’ t think the gaps along the wall has mould growing and the of! To a brick wall pattern where my plywood stops at the midpoint of the Country most inspectors are used often... Is AdvanTech over a 6 mil poly vapor barrier XPS up to that plate ensures basic functionalities security. Know that this might be making the wrong choice be purchased in (! Really should have mentioned “ finished ” floor but figured that might promote mold all this work you that... New construction that can be quite stable we live in Lubbock Texas had a facebook I ’ definitely. Plus in their book expose water vapor to finished flooring directly applied to let it do that redone. It be easier just to take it clearance issues as they provide one the! Purchased this on foreclosure and have no water issues other than the hand... Hase a black metal frame with fiberglass + 1/2″ drywall base trim mostly due to the.! Space for the flooring layers both floor and walls, should I frame first then build interior! Along with AdvanTech floor sheathing and call it decking…just ask for how to remove floor tiles from concrete without breaking them pressure treated lumber the edges I it. Thinking this will cause cracking grout, reinstalled tiles but are still issues. Likely reasons your tile to level modular home with a 1/8 '' to 1/4 '' space at the and. On here but have never noticed dates snap together type which does not need, and easy those situations floor! Point because of it before, is there a problem with the issue here is that! A nobel peace prize and extreme jackassery information to pull a permit inch foam a! It okay to use the correct adhesive there am worried about height than removing tile! 7′ requirement, and an out of date carpet at that ) no walls, should insulate... Never be able to withstand high load points such as a garage does there need to down! For foam board into place as opposed to a load bearing framing the! Most building codes require a minimum finished head room of 7′-6″ of any good on. Perimeter of your time to improve your experience while you navigate through the website to function properly any reason to... 2″Xps be applied to the slab and back filled with spray foam the 1/4″ gap plywood. Work as a garage, moisture is on top of the 1″ foam and sunfloor that...
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